Those who refuse to believe it even possible.

So, I just joined a group this morning on facebook , that is called "So you think that you MAY have found a native american artifact" and I have never met so much denial. They will only argue with me telling me to use facts, they are just rocks and finally to just stop with the discussion. It is funny as hell, cause I have added a bunch of questions that I think would add a lot to the conversation, and it seemed like it only irritated them. because it wasn't, matching what they are taught. I really don't know why they are so closed minded to this. I copied the whole conversation. Let me know if you would like me to post the conversation. I could post it without anyone's last names, or whatever. I think it would make for good topic here, and example of what to expect from mainstream Archaeologist, and no disrespect to anyone, as I am not the expert, but I believe there is plenty more to be learned in that field. I am sure that I could learn a lot from it myself, like better questions, or things to point out, to argue their claims.

As with most any issue, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. We may be seeing more than is there, but they are missing a lot. I spent some time trying to convince people on artifact forums, and while the arguing was amusing, not really a constructive use of time. I still participate on one forum but don’t push my beliefs, but do back others when the nonbelievers begin their attacks.

Thanks Greg and it was exactly as you explained it, and there was one guy that believes as we do,and said so. Some are and some very well are not. There has to be a way to show that figure stones as we believe they are, have got to have tooling marks that archaeology is missing. It will be the only way to get them to even look at them. As well, there has to be some recognizable tooling marks to bring the stones to a certain point, for the most part. I wouldn't think that there is any special tooling just for figure stones, etc.. However I do believe it possible that there is a technique that was maybe, seldom used due to the very short tool life, and as outsiders moved in with forged tools, introducing better, and longer lasting tools. Just a theory, but it gives me something to start checking into, and start learning how to spot tooling marks of all kinds. I think these discussions are great and encourages myself at least to start researching some of the information that is needed to hold a viable argument. Just because I believe these are altered by human hands, that adds a whopping 0% credibility to my side of a debate. So I think it best for me to get involved in discussion, and not in any more debates until I have something to debate with. Any suggestions for acquiring some knowledge would be helpful. Thanks again.

There is scientific method for validation and indisputable proof for the existence of such finds, however this is best evidenced by collections of finds, not individual ones.

1:  Topology, Topology Topology...... we have a common set of glyphs, subjects and conventions.
2:  Patina, an even patina on the the flake removals of any finds would suggest those flakes were removed in one proximal time period.
3:  Pigments, and application of such..... I have had FTIR spectroscopy carried out on a tar like material which is common on my finds, test indicate this is a manufactured substance. Lines/markings of iron pyrite simply must be applied, its difficult for them to get there by chance.
4:  Symmetrical features, parallel flake removals, almost guaranteed to not be by chance.
5:  Chaos, this is the common excuse thrown to discredit finds, show me a group of sponge bob stones, show me flint tools that have airplane, car, motobike images Randomly in them......

Much of this is covered in this post, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which was picked up by qualified Doctors and Professors and published.

Thanks Brett,   My belief in what these are has been a long one, however my knowledge to prove it to be true is just starting.  Your opening sentence of collection, and not individual, #1, #2 are major questions, and features associated with my stones.  Number 3, I may not be recognizing, or maybe not features. I will pay closer attention, and possibly discover something I may be missing. #4 I am sure this is a feature on mine that I just need to identify and point out to give my argument credibility.  Local archaeological society brought up design, as apposed to features, as they told me that, "I couldn't have found these here, as Native Americans from Calif were symmetrical in their designs and not angular, like what I was showing them".  #5 is another question I try to use. Why don't I see cars, or top hats, and only things that Native Americans would see?  They said "How would I know what they saw?"  Lol       [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

 I will check out the site that you suggested, and I think that I am understanding a little bit more.  These are not accurate, but basically show some of the possible work done on a stone that I have.

I appreciate this site, and thank you very much for your time and information.  My hopes are to become part of the solution, and not the problem.  I value your information.

Your welcome Lee, American archeology is for the most part quite ignorant of any culture pre-clovis, despite there being at least 3 sites that have demonstrated finds from much greater antiquity up to about 300kya, attitudes are changing though and many are accepting dates perhaps upto about 25kya for human habitation of north America.

The find you show the markings on looks to be water warn, and also has many flake removals, flint is as hard as steel on the mos scale, beaches, and gravel roads demonstrate that flints do not chip so easily, so I would suggest that agency in that find is utterly apparent, or a dinosaur decided to chew on that stone for a few hours for no apparent reason..... The patina on the stone also suggest that all those flake removals happen in one proximal time period, and as far as I can tell none since, as I see no newer chips.

I hope that helps.....

Don't worry for what other apes can't see
they may not have the privilege of this revelations
just enjoy and share, move your mountain stone by stone.
the new stuff is nice a bit repetitive for my taste
the old stuff fits and looks like an old glove, simply stoning.

Lol .
You actually love this dont you.
But talk shizzle.

I've only just begun to enjoy ROCKS(name they use not me in general) I am always amazed by what I find to the point of spending hours examining them. What I have tried to understand and for the life of me can't is how cam someone...anyone really look at them even as I point out specifics, and see absolutely nothing!?!? But a rock of course. I just can't wrap my brain around it. How can they be totally blind to even the slights hint of a figure? I honestly feel sorry for"them". I'm thinking...well maybe it's like being color blind...idk.

Perhaps these people who can not see the images have too much neanderthal DNA? as there is very scant evidence of neanderthals producing any figurative art, one piece on a cave wall is nothing more than some extremely crude etchings with iron pyrite/ochre, the crayon work adorning many fridges by children of around 2 years being far superior. Other artistic items attributed to them could have well been stolen from humans, however neanderthal graves have been found where the occupants were clothed..... The giants/heroes of old?

My understanding of the distant past has a huge mash up of 'hybrid creatures' we waged war against them being of 'pure blood' and defeated them. Its clear that we live on a world that has seen huge cataclysm, almost every ancient culture has the story of the great flood, and although geologists and historians will most likely tell you otherwise, the very ground we walk on and the fossils in it tell a hugely different story than mainstream 'science' would have you believe.

If it is true that all dinosaurs were wiped out around 65 million years ago, it is also true modern looking clothed humans lived 65 million years ago as well..... Although the first statement is touted as fact by many, its probably far from the truth, not only in chronology but also in the loss of an entire phylum.

I have a Autistic son 8 years old and he pointed out everything I can see and even can tell me a story of all of my finds. But his twin sister can not see anything that we can.she hasn't got autism. My brother is autistic also a twin he seems to see everything also.????
.

I have dyslexia, but just like the autism its impossible to know the flip side of the coin vs seeing the figures, i can not imagine anyone not being able to see some of the figures in particular finds of mine, but there is still the account of the native who had never seen a painting before, he was looking at a painting of a horse but could not understand it as showing anything ...

I have dyslexia that's why I allways have so little to write on here but in my head there is so much more I want to write

I would of never new bret that you were dyslexic.

Yes, I would of not guessed it of you either, computers cover a lot of my awful spelling, and some of my grammar. I do have a massive IQ that makes up for it a little, just unable to get that into print....

I too have posted material on "artifact" sites (facebook/web) only to be met with denial and ridicule. (quite rude at times) My take on this is that they are inline with what they've learned from mainstream "traditional" archeology's theory of "Clovis First". As far as the vast majority of those clowns is there is no wiggle room whatsoever on the 14 k year peopling of North America as far as they're concerned. It's not that they can't see the evidence that they are shown. It's more to the tune that they flat out refuse to see the exception that has in my opinion become the rule. The examples of "modern Indian tribe" artifacts that they base their definition of the typical traits and characteristics of geographic and tribal differences don't apply to what else is turning up and being found all across North America by thousands upon thousands of people just like you and I. (and the rest of the world too for that matter) This is because we are talking about vastly differing timelines. 14,000 years vs perhaps millions of years. Are they right and everybody else is wrong? Or vice versa? You'll never know if you waste your time trying to hold a civil conversation or debate (ugh!) with these internet trolls due to the fact that they already have their closed minds made up sight unseen that there was no human (or otherwise) presence in the western hemisphere before the Clovis rolled in some 14 k years ago. I don't doubt for a second that the Clovis arrived precisely about when they claim that they did. However...I do not believe the Clovis were the first arrivals here. Could I be wrong? Of course I could be. What makes me believe otherwise is where the rubber meets the road. I have collected ancient artifacts in the traditional sense since my childhood beginning back in the mid 70's. I know exactly what projectile points, and other utility based tools look like because I have thousands of the more "modern" pieces in my collection from paleo and on down the line. I can, and have "oohed and ahhed" the same aforementioned crowd with examples from my collection. However. (this is where that very same crowd turns on you like a rabid Rottweiler) I also have equal amounts of artifacts that depict dinosaurs, apes, mastadon, wooly mammoth, cave bears, Sabretooth cats, pterodactyl, and other critters that have been extinct for well over their self imposed 14 k year time-line mark in the sand that they really don't appreciate you stepping over. Like I said before... I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong. But I don't believe that I am... judging solely by what I have seen, and continue to see on a daily basis carved, engraved, and drawn upon both ancient tools, and on pieces of what could only be explained as portable stone art. I do know a worked/manipulated piece when I see one. Basic rudimentary knowledge, and experience are helpful in knowing these things. But lacking those? Just some basic common sense alone will generally tell you if what you're looking at is "real" or not. Why is it such a big deal for some to study an object with an open mind, and look at artifacts that question the "Clovis First" theory that they cling so desperately to? Well...heh heh...this is where it gets ugly. If the time line is abandoned, then history as they preach it must be rewritten. And in the process several groups lose their traditional spot in American history. Along with their prestigious place in it that they have enjoyed. I believe this not because I merely "think so". One example... I was at a knap in gathering one day. While I was there... I met a fella that claimed loud and proud to one and all attendees there to be a high ranking official from within the Cherokee Indian tribe. I managed to get his ear for a few minutes, and asked him if he'd mind taking a look at some of the more unique pieces of my collection, and tell me what he thought they might be. He looked at what I had scooted back home and cherry picked for him from my collection. (they were all very very nice pieces that had dust on them much older than 14 k years) He picked up artifact after artifact...and rubberstamped his predictable opinion on each and every one. Rock. Rock. Rock. Rock. I think you get the jist...lol. I didn't argue with the man...especially since I had indeed solicited his "expert opinion". (I'm using that term VERY loosely btw ) So biased he was. Beligerant. Arrogant. Condescending. Rude. All the above. I apparently insulted him in the end after he tossed one of my pieces onto the open tailgate of my truck on top of another "rock". (as a side note tho...he heard as well as I did the "tink" sound that two heat treated artifacts make when brought into contact with one another. I saw him do the double take, and then promptly act as if it didn't happen) At that point I started gathering up my pieces and asked him to please be more respectful of other people's belongingings. "****ing rocks!" was his reply...and then loudly proclaimed "I'm done here!" as he stomped away muttering, grumbling, and whining as he did. Then...i proceeded to witness him sell chunks of flint to the gathered flint Knappers for $50 on up to $300. On a small scale that also as well describes what's happening here in the larger picture? It's not about facts, or scientific evidence here. It's all about the money with these people. And if you place man walking amongst dino's? Well that kinda just kills the notion all together of the 14k timeline don't it? 🧐

I just had a meeting with an archaeologist who readers of the Pleistocene coalition would be very familiar with. Happens to live 5 minutes down the road and  “just a rock’s” throw from where most of my finds came from. I showed him a selection of both my artifacts that no one on the internet will give me credit for and figure stones, all were well received. I didn’t ask him to put his stamp on anything, just showed and offered my opinion of what they were. I wish the rest of you could have this opportunity, feeling very validated. I think the tide is turning on our favor, just not going to happen quickly.

Puppets, shills, liars, deniers,.. They would have you believe what is wanted for you to believe, otherwise

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If you see you see...

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They can't explain the methods or the content hence the denials...

I'm not sure that the archeologists have any free thought or intelligence for that matter.

They date detailed cave paintings to 100,000 years and older but then try to say people just stopped decorating stones and rocks during the next 100,000 years.

hmmm

bunch of baboons...

This is the reason I have as my husband says obsessed over the the artifacts and time line! If a novice can read the what my land offers up EVERY DAY and determine that what is taught as a timeline in North America’s population is incorrect how can the “experts” (not on my finds) NOT SEE that the books are incorrect! I get so tired of the attacks because my tools match finds of Europe or Africa therefor here in the US of A that can’t be! So they are deemed just a rock when it is obviously been manipulated by man! I try to put my best pieces out there to make sure we are seen. I hope to change their textbook blindness one day. The acknowledgment of ancient man’s art is my goal and maybe push America’s timeline of being peopled back too! But I doubt I will see it but maybe my pic will one day! Thanks Judy E